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Моделируем "meta experience" (1) Онтология "meta experience"
metanymous wrote in metapractice

What is the Experience of “Meta”?

Posted by: Steve Andreas in: Articles

What is the Experience of “Meta”?
A dialogue between Steve Andreas and Michael Hall

Some time ago, I (Steve) made the following general proposal to Michael for a dialogue to exemplify a respectful exchange of views in the field:

In the past, you and I have had significantly different fundamental understandings on a number of issues that could be the basis for a public dialogue between us, such as:

1. Whether or not it is important to distinguish between two uses of “meta” to refer to large scope (“the big picture”) or general category — a topic I explored at length in my Six Blind Elephants books.

2. My description of your concept of “layering” as the reverse of nested categories in the logical levels of naïve set theory, as set forth in Elephants, pp. 114-116

3. Whether Submodalities are meta or subdivisions of scopes of experience.

Of course you may have changed your views on one or more of these issues, or you might prefer to choose others. Assuming we could agree on an interesting issue on which we have differing views, I have some fairly specific ideas about how to create a respectful dialogue to avoid misunderstandings, side issues, etc.

Privately one of us would write up a position statement on the selected issue, and the other would respond to it in writing. Then we would each edit or revise our positions until we are both satisfied that we have had an opportunity to present our position fully, respond fully to the other’s position, and that we each understand the other clearly, to avoid problems like, “Well, that’s not what I said,” or “That’s what I said, but what I really meant was—” etc. This would also be an opportunity for each of us to notice any “ad hominem” arguments or other logical fallacies, and remove them.

After we are both satisfied with the result of this process, we would jointly offer this to the public (the summit group, your and my blogs) and invite comments from others.

I think this could serve as an example of working toward clarification or resolution of important issues that currently divide or confuse the field. Please let me know if you might be interested in joining with me on this, and/or if you have other views on how we could better accomplish the goal of presenting contrasting views in a way that could provide a productive dialogue.

Michael agreed in principle, and sent me a number of different extensive position statements on the meaning of “Meta,” and I take this as an invitation to focus on this topic. I prefer to begin with a more concise statement for our dialogue, but other writing projects (and my struggle with greatly diminished energy due to Parkinson’s disease) have delayed me until now. ... http://realpeoplepress.com/blog/what-is-the-experience-of-meta?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+SteveAndreasNlpBlog+%28Steve+Andreas%27+NLP+Blog%29

Мета опыт


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Карго-НЛП Холла есть в своём роде «МЕТА»

In the human experience, the meta-function, what is due to the kind of mind that we have - our self-reflexive consciousness. That is, as we think-and-feel in regard to something "out there" in the world (a primary state), perhaps experiencing joy, fear, love, anger, stress, etc., we can then as it were "step back "from ourselves and entertain additional (secondary) thoughts-and-feelings about our experience. When we fear our state of fear, we construct a meta-state. We can love our joy, fear our anger, feel ashamed of our misunderstanding. The second state is about the first state. Here consciousness becomes richly complex. Here we do not just add another thought or feeling. Here we multiply.
В человеческом опыте, мета-функции, что связано с тем умом, который у нас есть, - нашим саморефлексивным сознанием. То есть, поскольку мы думаем и чувствуем что-то «там» в мире (первичное состояние), возможно, испытывая радость, страх, любовь, гнев, стресс и т. Д., Мы можем тогда как бы «шаг» назад "от себя и развлекать дополнительные (вторичные) мысли и чувства о нашем опыте. Когда мы боимся нашего состояния страха, мы строим мета-состояние. Мы можем любить нашу радость, бояться нашего гнева, стыдиться нашего недоразумения. Второе состояние относится к первому состоянию. Здесь сознание становится богато сложным. Здесь мы не просто добавляем еще одну мысль или чувство. Здесь мы умножаем.

Мета-функции… ум… саморефлексивное сознание… мета-состояния… чувства чувств… умножение мыслей и чувств… такое впечатление, что Холл относится к понятиям и терминам как адепт карго-культа:


Такое впечатление, что если на каждом шагу говорить правильные слова, по поводу и без повода употреблять «мета», тогда получится самое крутое НЛП, круче чем только можно себе предоставить. А как оно получится, откуда возьмётся? А неким магическим способом. Главное, в качестве молитвы твердить «мета» и почаще устраивать всякие ритуалы.

Edited at 2018-01-16 12:17 pm (UTC)

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